Hellcat5's take on the weight mechanic


#1

Every player starts out with a weight of 0, before any guns are applied. For every 1 unit of weight the player has, that is 1 less stud/sec they move at. When at 0-2 weight, players will move at 18 studs/sec. When at 15+ weight, the player will move at 5 studs/s.

However there are speed caps. Players cannot be able to move faster than 18 studs/s, because then it would be stupid and melee rushdown classes would be even more annoying. Therefore, there will be a speed cap at the current 18 studs/s. This way, we will not have to make melees weight an unnecessary amount for balancing purposes. Also, before I implemented this nerf, you could technically move at 20 studs/s if you had no gun equipped.

Tangent on the 20 stud/s movement speed

I believe that a 20 stud/s movement speed thing would be very interesting as a playstyle. It would be extremely high risk high reward, and players using this build would rely heavily on teammates and grenades. The main playstyle of this build would be to run to points before anyone else could get there at the start of a match, then throw a grenade, have that grenade kill a player, and then take that player’s weapon for your use. It would be a very very intriguing playstyle.
It would also be very interesting to see it perform mid-match, as once the players were all separated, these players could just find a weapon without having to kill anyone.
This build could also work incredibly well in Flare Domination and Capture the Flag. They would essentially be stealth classes, using incredible speed to cap objectives, and rather than put pressure on the team by raining down fire upon them and forcing them to take cover, they would pressure a team by forcing them to split their numbers up. While this already happens in CTF with brass knuckle users, brass knuckle players can still actually defend themselves. The 20 stud/s build would have zero defensive capabilities outside of grenades, and would essentially be a minmaxed to shit brass knuckle build.
Overall, I think this build would be very interesting, but a it would be a bit too powerful for Phantom Forces. While they have no defensive or offensive options aside from running away and grenades, running at 20 studs/s is already a very good option, and grenades are also very very overpowered.
Although, I could make it so grenades have weight, and so they would have to sacrifice their grenades to actually perform better. Another way would be to have players move at 18 studs/s when their weight is 0.1-2.0, so that they could only actually pull this build off when their weight is 0. Which would also work with the grenade weight balance idea.

But for now 20 stud/s builds are out of the question. Far too useful for one player to be in my opinion.

All items equipped have a weight value that will add together, so you will always move at the same speed regardless of what weapon you have in your hands. This will be more realistic, and maybe encourage some more loadout diversity. Maybe the less powerful guns such as the M9 could be lighter than its pistol brethren, and instead of simply being outclassed in almost every way like it is currently, it could find a nice home as a utility weapon to minimize speed loss while also preserving your damage output.

This could also serve to nerf some stupidly good weapon combos, for example when using an M60 and a SFG for example, you can’t just be a slow tank with an M60, pull out your melee, and run at sonic speeds. Now your M60 has weight, and in trade for its incredible kill power, you would be much slower than you already are.

I would also like to propose another mechanic to compliment the new weight mechanics system heavily that I’ve never seen suggested before; the option to have no weapon in a certain slot, or slots.
Now what would the ability to remove weapons do? Well first off, you can optimize your build by opting to not equip a secondary that you would never use, go all in on your primary, and move faster. However, there would be more to it. Because you no longer have a secondary, or a primary, your soldier now has more room for ammo. Let’s put it this way.
If no primary is equipped, then your secondary gets 33% more ammo in its reserve.
If so secondary is equipped, then your primary gets 1 more mag. There is an exception for certain guns (such as the M60 or other high capacity LMGs) that gives you only half a mag extra however.
If no melee is equipped, then both your primary and secondary get 15-25% more ammo in reserve.

Another idea I have had is body armor. Yes we haven’t seen this 20 times already. Anyways, once a weight mechanic is a thing, you could have body armor actually weigh you down, which would open the door for even more customization. New body armors could have unique affects, and could even make other attachments even better. For example, having no armor equipped would turn Hollowpoint’s 0.8x torso multiplier into a 1.1x torso multiplier, which would make hollowpoints actually viable for once.

This is all I’ve got so far, and it’s been me just rambling, but as the user @adiseagle and I seem to think, this mechanic has tons of potential to develop the game. This right here is just the base mechanics and whatnot. The sheer amount of loadout customization that could come from this is staggering, and would surely make the gme much more interesting and entertaining to play than it already is.

Then again I can see why some people would find an overall weight mechanic annoying. It could slow down the game quite a bit, however it also has the chance to speed it up. Overall, I would say it takes the black and white of the current movement system and makes it a nice gray, which is not a bad thing, because within that gray is the chance for even more customization, optimization, and fun.

Although, the sheer amount of customization options you could have might be a little startling to newer players, and yes, even some veterans of the series. However, I believe that this mechanic would benefit the game more than it would harm it. That confusion and such would be just a temporary phase, and before long the meta variety for phantom forces would kick into full swing, and we could see an explosion of player choice that we have not seen ever before.


#2

Pistol mains unite!


#3

melees are literally useless

just what we needed


#4

No not exactly. Melees are in and of themselves very good options even without their incredible speed. They kill silently, they can instant kill to the back, and they do more burst damage in CQC than any other gun short of a shotgun or sniper. Those traits are already incredible.

Melees now can be arguably more effective, and they can potentially move even faster than before, but that requires sacrifice of your longer ranged options, which you weren’t going to be using anyways if you’re relying on the melee that much.

Melees are meant to be a last ditch effort, as they always have been. Not a movement option. With this you can have melees be a powerful tool to be used over other options, but that requires heavy sacrifices, as it already fucking should.


#5

Nonsense, you just spam left click and it just works. :^]


#6

i don’t really understand what it mean, i think my concept is more simple.
1Kg weight slow player by 1%. and also the base walk speed is actually 16 studs/sec.
example:

i sugest read my new topics about these weight mechanics: what the weight mechanics can do


#7

This sounds similar to an older thread… :thonk:


#8

Gee whiz I wonder it’s called HELLCAT5’S TAKE


#9

It sounds really similar to the ideas shared amongst both myself and veteran… :thonk: :thonk: :thonk:


#10

That’s because it fuckin is but this time I go in detail about how it would shift the balancing of the game.

Wait did I actually do that? I may have posted prematurely AGAIN

Also do your fuckin job and debunk my shit Torush you lazy bum.


#11

Wait just a god damn minute I haven’t seen you debunk anything for literal months, what the fuck has happened.


#12

Yeah sure let’s make melee mains even faster.


#13

Actually, melee mains would be far less common. Not only would dying to a melee main be almost entirely your fault, but they would be easy picks at range because if they want to be true melee mains, they have to abandon their primary and secondary, their primary at the very least. This would make melee users overall weaker not because you nerf melees, but because you make it so having options to cover melees takes away from their value as a main weapon rather than a backup.

Melee mains would actually be weaker than ever before with this.


#14

IDK if you know this, but stylist dropped the volume of enemy footsteps. You won’t hear them till they 2 feet away. If a melee main gets behind you it’s gg because by the time you hear him, he’s gonna be close enough where he’s too fast to kill


#15

u wot m7


Also fine. I’ll try tmr


#16

phantom forces is not designed to be a fast-paced game

F0899665-E1BB-453D-8B85-74D68C28AD2F


#17

80% of my posts are shitposts. :upside_down_face:


18sps is defined to be the default speed of the player. Presumably, this is the speed of the player when they don’t have any primary or secondary weapons equipped. And although dropping/spawning without weapons is certainly a nice strategy to adopt with this mechanic, it doesn’t remedy the knifer problem that this speed cap seems to attempt to do.


I quite like the risk of having a knife out to run a little faster, and keeping speeds the same removes this risk for a mechanic that doesn’t have any benefits. The formula I proposed in the original post will support both this risk as well as keep some realism. ([1]) However, it is absurd to state that this mechanic will encourage diverse loadouts simply because people will ought to use a light-weight weapon that is similar to powerful yet heavier weapons and remove their secondary weapon for better speed. Also, please provide examples for [2].

This problem is further accentuated by evaluating PDW playstyles.

PDWs are a nice alternative to LMGs and Carbines. They are small (hence weigh less), they deal small amounts of damaged but is compensated by their incredible RPM. Compare this to LMGs. They are incredibly heavy, their RPM is relatively slow but is compensated by their large amounts of damage. A theoretical and over-simplified battle between a PDW and an LMG user will be resolved with the victor being either LMG player if they both fire at the same time, or the PDW player if they shot first or the LMG player missed their shots.

The LMG player will typically pull out their secondary weapon to counter their speed disadvantage at the risk of losing a surprise battle. However, with the consistency in speed, LMGs will quickly be replaced with weapons that perform similarly (i.e. PDWs and Carbines) and hence they will remain out of gameplay circulation (unless some YouTuber wants to do an “LMG Challenge”).

This further reinstates that weight should not be strictly consistent, but should rather differ slightly based on whatever weapon the player is holding.


I find this contradictory. You propose walk speeds to remain consistent for realism, yet believe that the weight of each weapon should be determined for balance rather than realism.


This raises a very interesting question: Do/Should magazines have weight points as well?
Also, I don’t think it’s a good idea to compensate for a strategy that revolves around risk. You should not reward the player with more ammunition for their secondary weapon when they cosnciously spawn in without a primary weapon.


This is shorter than I first anticipated… :confused:


#18

LMGs would still be very very viable in PF, because they still hold out a few big advantages over PDWs

[1] They have much more ammo that gets spent far slower, which means you can stay alive and supplied with ammo for longer.

[2] LMGs are still the best supporting weapon class in the game. Their ability to put pressure on an objective, and rain down sustained fire on it is unparalelled, and can help many teams push onto an objective.

[3] Better performance at range in general

[4] Better burst damage, and they are far better against grouped up enemies.


#19

I have glitched my PF character to not display any weapons after deploying. Yet, this still limited me to the “held” weapon’s walk-speed. I appeared empty-handed to both myself and to another person, but I retained the walkspeed of whatever weapon I had before the glitch.

This leads me to believe tbere is no “default” walk-speed without equipped weapons in Phantom Forces. If this is the case, actually having nothing would mean 0 studs/second.

I should ask a developer about that, though… :thonk:
The only information I’ve heard from a dev is that the walkspeed cap is hard-set to 30 studs/second.